How big a deal is break fluid change?

[Hornet]

Alright, my Honda manual suggests a brake fluid change every 2 years, but I wonder is this really necessary. I mean when is the last time I or you ever did this on our car. I understand brakes are used much more on bikes (way I ride anyways) but c'mon every two years. I was planning on buying new braided brake lines and new pads for next winters project. This will require me to completely drain my lines (duh) which will make it a total of 4 years since I have changed my fluid by then. Anyhow, should I be doing this more often or is this one of those (keep an eye on it and do it as need be items). I'm sure the dealers would like to see us do this sort of stuff yearly (good for business $$$$)

Please give me your opinions.

[Shaman]

Change it.  Often.  Brake fluid accumulates moisture over the years no matter what you do, and that can lead to a mush lever and/or vapourization which can cause brake fade.  It's a good idea to change it at least every two years, for sure.  The longer you go, the more you can expect to have problems even riding at more moderate levels of agressiveness.  The one thing you do not ever want to experience on a motorcycle is brake fade.  At least in a car, I can spin the thing sideways in a corner to bleed off speed...

I am crazy about brake feel.  I have replaced pads and fluid twice now.

[Hornet]

Steve,

Do you use a special pump for bleeding your brakes or do you just pump them the old fation way? Also what is your take on the advantage of "braided lines"? Apparently they enhance feedback because they are stiffer but I wouldn't know.

[Shaman]

Do you use a special pump for bleeding your brakes or do you just pump them the old fation way? Also what is your take on the advantage of "braided lines"? Apparently they enhance feedback because they are stiffer but I wouldn't know.

I have braided lines in my car.  Well worth the money to me.  I like very firm brake action, personally.

I admit, I had Tony's do it.  The system on my bike with 8 front pistons and two lines made me a bit nervous, and rightly so, as it was apparently quite a pain to do.    On a slightly simpler system, or if you have the stamina (I have a phobia of bad brakes, remember), then there is no need for a pump.  Just use a piece of rubber tubing to avoid a mess and pump the lever or pedal to purge the fluid.  Whatever you do, don't empty the master cylinder completely or you'll have to deal with flushing the system until the very last bubble comes out of it... that is, if it will continue to pump properly.  Just add some fresh fluid to the reservoir as you go, it's mainly the fluid in the lines you want to purge so don't worry about the system not being completely fresh.

[wes-ninja250]

When pumping, keep the end of your clear plastic hose in a jar full of brake fluid. That way, if you don't tighten the bleed nipple enough between strokes of the lever, you'll suck fresh fluid into your caliper instead of air.

You may also need to have the lid on the fluid reservoir to get the master cylinder to push fluid down the line. I forget why this is. Keep an eye on your sight glass and make SURE you don't let it go empty. Also, brake fluid will make a nasty mess of your paint and fairing plastics. Spread a garbage bag around your work area if you're a clutzy bumpkin like me.

Once you're down and everything is tightened down, make sure your brakes feel right (no sponginess, esp with SS lines!!). If they do, you're golden, no need to worry.

But I must admit, like Steve, the good folks at Tony's did my most recent brake work. I'm too busy to do it myself, and it's not like it's something you can just put off forever.

Speaking of which, to tell if you need fluid -- look at the sight glass, here are my personal guidelines:

Looks like water: Rock on!
Looks like urine: Change this month
Looks like Molson Canadian (subtly different from above): Change this week
Looks like Sleaman's Cream Ale: Change today
Looks like Smithwick's: Change yesterday

Wes

[Shaman]

When pumping, keep the end of your clear plastic hose in a jar full of brake fluid. That way, if you don't tighten the bleed nipple enough between strokes of the lever, you'll suck fresh fluid into your caliper instead of air.

Forgot to mention that.  Thx.

Looks like urine: Change this month
Looks like Molson Canadian (subtly different from above): Change this week

Subtly different in taste, too.

Good thing you didn't mention Guiness.  That'd be horrifying.

[Hornet]

I just talked to one of the mechanics at  Honda and he said every 2 years is plenty for "most riders". Mind you exceptions do exist. He also mentioned that most people would never be able to tell the difference between regular OEM rubber brake lines and expensive SS braided lines. Truthfully I think most people except the "pros" would never feel the difference from these lines. Most of these modifications probably effect your "mind". If you think it...then it is. I guess the same goes for people messing with suspension setup trying to get the perfect balance ...yet they cant ride and neglect the most important factor which is "skill". I guess its just fun to have all the hop-ups like the pros. If it makes you "feel" like one, hey why not.

[Shaman]

That's B.S.  Believe me, you can feel the difference between regular lines and stainless steel, even if the lines are in good shape.  Almost all sponginess disappears.   It's a feel thing more than anything... I prefer a tight feeling brake setup regardless of bike or car.

Also, I'd question the advice regarding "typical riders."  What's a typical rider?  I advocate changing brake fluid *before* things go bad.  I've been on the wrong side of the equation before, and you don't want to be there.

[Hornet]

By typical rider I guess I mean the type that doesnt "overwork" the brakes constantly. Sort of like on a track day. The more you "reef" on the brakes, the hotter the fluid gets thereby increasing the temperature and thereby "promoting" moisture build up. A basic street rider hardly gives his brakes that sort of work out (my opinion)

P.S. I am always right, at least thats what I tell my kids 

[Shaman]

Heh.  Well... I work my brakes out pretty good on the street sometimes.  I've long considered my GSX-R brakes just barely adequate, and they got accolades when the bike came out. <shrug>

You'll find anyone who has raced will have a phobia about brake fade, though.  Your brakes are all that stand between life or death on really fast tracks.  In fact, if they start fading, the race is probably over for you.

I blued my rotors at Deal's Gap last spring and they didn't fade until a few weeks later under regular use.  A few hard uses can show up as problems later on... BTW my rear brake fluid was badly discoloured... I was trailing the rear brake going into many of the corners to get a bit more rotation early in the curve.  I was pretty surprised to find that I'd generated that kind of heat.

All of this is just my way of saying that you can't take brakes for granted, I guess.  If you are ever without them, just once, you'll never question the logic of keeping your fluid and lines fresh again.  I often squeeze them a little when I'm riding quickly just to be sure they'll be there.

[Hornet]

I agree 100% Steve, never take your brakes for granted.

[wes-ninja250]

Hornet - your mechanic is on crack. ANYBODY who uses their brakes for more than coasting-to-a-stop can feel the difference between SS and rubber lines, especially if the rubber lines aren't brand-new.

The difference, as Steve said, is feel. Not necessarily braking power, but FEEL. Feel is REALLY important for a street rider. In a panic stop situation, I want to apply *exactly* as much front and rear brake as I can without locking up the wheels. This is MUCH easier to feel with stainless lines.

Wes

[flash]

I'm long over due for a fluid change. Perhaps before I ride this year. I'm thinking of going kevlar instear of SS though.

[Shaman]

I'm long over due for a fluid change. Perhaps before I ride this year. I'm thinking of going kevlar instear of SS though.

They use Kevlar on the newer GSX-Rs.  I'd recommend stainless lines, myself. 

[Deerslayer]

A little technique I use is:
Get a cheap plastic syringe or a lab pipette (it is reusable and cheap).
You may notice that there is some crud or discolored fluid in the bottom of the brake fluid reservoir, no point in pumping that through the system.
Syringe out all the fluid, and any such gunk, in the reservoir, right down to the small opening that leads to the cylinder itself - start syringing at the bottom, that gets the gunk out immediately and does not let air get into the cylinder and lines.
Fill the reservoir.
Start the routine of pumping the fluid through the system. Always do your draining, via a small tube, into a nice clear bottle. That way, you can see the condition of the old fluid and when the fresh stuff is going through.  Keep topping up the reservoir as you go.
Be generous - brake fluid is cheap, you don't likely want to be storing it for a long time anyway, so use it up now.

Don't forget to do the clutch system as well, if you have a hydraulically actuated clutch.


Of course, none of this applies on those fancy bikes with interlocked and/or ABS brake systems. The technique for them is much simpler:
Go to the bank.
Withdraw your life savings.
Go to dealer.
They do it all.
Smile nidely, as you pay the ransom.